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Annalie Killian's avatar

Hi Indy, you may enjoy reading this post as an extension of your thinking ….https://www.theintrinsicperspective.com/p/why-we-stopped-making-einsteins

Andreas Wandelt's avatar

An important question! A weakness I see in the argument is that the hierarchy you propose is a claim. "Rights first, capabilities second" is something your text claims to be a good way of doing things, but I do not see a compelling reasoning behind it.

I think another strong argument can be made: Your text centers around capability, but only at the angle of personal capability. Also Altman seems to look at things only on that level. What about collective capability? Humans, having a body, body language, and emotions can interact with each other in ways which go beyond the abilities of artificial systems. And this will be so for a while. I think this unlocks, in terms of resilience, creativity, and collective survivability, a number of options that a pure bundle of individual capability AIs would not be able to replicate. I think this angle shows another important limitation of Altman's argument. But of course I am here still in the capability framework, arguing from a somewhat evolutionary lens. My argument would be as valid for robots vs. ants. I do realize that you are making a different point. I am just not sure what the compelling arguments are to follow it.

And of course, this argument would apply the other way as well: AIs certainly have capabilities to interact in ways which are not open to humans. For example, transferring learning between them, let us say by transferring modified sets of weights, is something we cannot do.

Your arguments made in many other of your writings that the self is relationally constituted, entangled, and cannot be separated out I very much agree with. I see my argument here as a kind of capability lens on that, maybe. The argumentative gap I see is: How does this lead to a rights-first stance? I think an argument about the irreducibility of persons is valid, but should not an argument about the irreducibility of collectives come with that? Would something like that yield something like a collective capability argument that validly counters Altman's claim in his own framing?

I am treading carefully here because I certainly do not claim to have a full understanding of your very extensive thinking.

As background, I am also thinking in the direction of risks and dangers in a "rights first" approach: Which rights exactly are intrinsic? The rights of whom? How to define 'dignity'?

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